Boundaries in Relationships: What Goes Unspoken | The MindSpa Podcast S2E28

Tina Wilston: 00:00
I’m gonna work on my libido, but I can’t guarantee it’ll come back. I’d be wanting to know what are you doing. All right, welcome back to today’s episode of the The MindSpa Podcast. Today we are doing Am I the A-Hole posts, and I’m gonna get us started with our first one with my new readers because my eyes suck

Tina Wilston: 00:22
all of a sudden. Okay. So I told my wife that our marriage isn’t the right fit for me anymore when she took sex off the table. Am I the A-Hole. I, 38-year-old male, have a high libido, and my wife, 36-year-old female, has a low one. Uh, we’ve been in a dead bedroom for about four years now, and we have kids together. She recently told me she wants to go to individual therapy to stop making um, sorry, she wants me to go to individual therapy to stop making her responsible for my sexual needs.

‘I’ve tried my best to communicate over the years, but as soon as uh she said that phrase, I’ve had a deep realization that I’ve had it all wrong. Of course I don’t want to have sex that isn’t fully consensual, but I think my constantly talking to her about it, asking for more effort in the bedroom, initiative, and playfulness in our day-to-day interactions, I made her feel responsible for my happiness. I am struggling to understand because when I promised to forsake all others, I thought I was choosing to be in a relationship where my partner would proactively want to meet my relationship needs, not out of responsibility or duty, but because we were in tune with each other. I thought we shared the same values when it comes to intimacy and had the same desires so that it wouldn’t be a chore.

The truth is I still have those needs and she doesn’t, and that’s okay. She’s not wrong for being where she is, but it also means this relationship is no longer the right fit for me. And I don’t think I owe it to the marriage to keep depriving myself of something that makes me feel loved and alive. We are in couples therapy, and she proposed taking sex entirely off the table so we could focus on our energies elsewhere while I wait for her to regain her sex drive, which she mentioned isn’t a guarantee. She says she loves me and loves our partnership as best friends, parents, and partners in the romantic sense, but she says sex is off the table. So after a few days of just mulling it over, I told her, I thanked her for being honest with me. I said, You’re not responsible for my needs, but I owe it to myself in a relationship. Um, sorry, I owe it to myself to be in a relationship where those needs are met.

And it’s uh, and if that’s not possible with you anymore, then this marriage just isn’t a right fit for me. I also said that I’m grateful for her for being honest about why sex is off the table because it gives me time to plan things out. We have a prenup and we both work hard to build our wealth together. It’s scary, and I know that separating might mean losing active access to my kids 50% of the time. The fault isn’t hers, but it’s also true that she’s stopped being the person I can feel happy and fulfilled with.

She’s taken this extremely badly. She has made all sorts of assumptions about me and demands an answer as to why I wasn’t curious about her thought process behind what she wants us to do. She said that I blindsided her, but honestly, I’m not angry with her anymore. She takes an issue with the language I use, but I don’t see how. She has mentioned she doesn’t want the blame and responsibility for my relationship needs not being met. And I thought, isn’t that exactly what I was doing? I took on the responsibility of the choices I made, and sadly that included choosing her. She’s uh been acting defensive and angry, even when it comes to discussing kids and not our relationship.

Michelle Massunken: 03:27
Wow. What do you think? There’s a lot going on there. There’s a lot going on there. Yeah. I think a few things. I think he’s he’s coming, there’s a lot of insight that he’s developing over time. I think he’s coming to realize that there’s a shift in the values that they once shared. They were once on the same page in terms of like, what do we value when it comes to our marriage and when it comes to uh what we want to see in our marriage?

And now it seems as if there’s an there’s again, there’s a disconnect of some kind between how he perceives things and how she does as well, too. I think as well, like when it comes to sex and marriage as well, like that’s not usually the first thing to go. Right. I feel like there’s it’s there’s usually a bit of a runway before we get to that point. And so whether there are other types of closeness and intimacy that have also dissolved over time. Because four years. It’s a long time.

Tina Wilston: 04:19
That’s a long time.

Michelle Massunken: 04:20
It’s a long time. So I even wonder like what what does the emotional connection look like? And what does that intimacy component look like?

Tina Wilston: 04:26
And has that also because interestingly, they they both seem to agree. Like, we’re really good friends, we’re really good co-parents, like there’s still a lot of clear love between them.

Michelle Massunken: 04:37
Right. Yeah. But then there’s big parts of it that are not where he expects it to be, and it doesn’t even sound like with her there is a room for even discussing or even exploring how do we get to this? Like how you know, for her to kind of get to that conclusion as well as kind of it’s a hard one to swallow, I think, on his part too. Yeah.

Tina Wilston: 04:57
Yeah. I what struck me about this in particular was um I think the fact that she said it’s off the table in couples therapy. I I’m a little bit confused, just in the sense of like, why? I’ve actually seen that be recommended before in couples therapy, where it’s like, let’s just take it off the table right now because there’s actually this aversion happening, this felt pressure, this conflict around it. So let’s rebuild intimacy outside of that in order to get back to that. Right.

That that’s not how that was framed in here. So I’m kind of curious if that’s what it was. Because to me, this and to me, it makes a massive difference on the fact that you can’t wait that process out for your marriage and your children. I would say, tell me why. On whose part? The wife’s part, the husband’s part. Like, why wouldn’t if she’s saying, let’s take it off the table for now while we work towards intimacy and get back to that?

I’d say, why don’t you why don’t we want to go on that journey with her? If it’s more like, because the way it sounds is I’m gonna work on my libido, but I can’t guarantee it’ll come back. I’d be wanting to know, what are you doing? What are what are you doing to explore that? Are you going to your doctor? Are you getting your hormones tested? Are you talking to a therapist? Is there a is there a history piece to this? We know that history of sexual assault can impact these things. Like, are you working through that? Because sometimes we do see people who will say, I have this issue and I’m working on it.

Michelle Massunken: 06:38
But what does that look like?

Tina Wilston: 06:39
But working on it is literally I’m aware now. Right. Not just we’re not actually doing anything practical. Not reading any books. Yeah. I’m not going to therapy. I’m not actually like doing anything, looking at any behaviour change and that type of stuff. So for me, if she’s actively trying to understand, figure this out, and reignite the sex in their marriage, and that’s a value for her and that’s a goal for her. And you’re saying, uh, you’re not meeting it right now, and I can’t really, I don’t really want to wait it out. I go, why? What like why did we wait four years?

Michelle Massunken: 07:13
That’s the question. The four years piece. Yeah, right. Like what has why because this this is not a new issue. And so we’re yes, we’re looking at solutions right now, but what have we been doing and what have we been talking about over the last four years? Like, has there been direction towards solution over the last four years, or have we sort of just like swept this under the rug and we’re now bringing it to the forefront? Because that also makes a difference. Like, yeah, who knows? He might have been riding it out. It’s been off the table for four years, but she’s now vocalizing it. Right. And it’s like, it’s like, girl, it’s been off the table. Like, why are you now saying this? Right.

Tina Wilston: 07:48
Like it’s always been off the table. It’s almost like the off the table is more you’re not allowed to talk to me about it anymore. Right. Because that’s all that it sounds like he has been doing for the last four years. So I I agree. It’s like, and and again, let’s say she said she’s been working on it for four years and he’s like, I’m done waiting. Yeah. You said you’ve been trying to work on this for four years. We have moved the needle zero in four years.

I don’t have it in me anymore to wait. Because I think we both agree that is a really important need to get met in a marriage because it’s one you can’t get met outside. So let’s say I’m an extrovert, you’re an introvert, I like concerts. You don’t like concerts, those needs can get met outside very safely. Friends do other things. Yeah. But this very specific thing is something that you can’t outsource. Exactly. And I don’t think it’s fair to say you can take care of it yourself. I don’t think that’s a fair Yeah.

Michelle Massunken: 08:44
It’s an it’s an important part of the relationship. Yeah. And that’s again, that’s where he’s like the differences and the shock value comes into play. Like, so now that we’re on two different pages with the importance of this, like, where do we go from here? And I think the way that he’s approaching it, I mean, I think it’s he’s approaching it cautiously, I think, and carefully. And I think he’s approaching it gently as well, especially if he’s waited four years to figure out what the next step looks like and what we’re actually going to be doing in this situation. But I I I guess I wonder for him, and back to his question, is he the a-hole? Like, what are the what are the options that we’ve tried and what are the options that remain that are worth exploring? I don’t

Michelle Massunken: 09:24
know.

Tina Wilston: 09:24
I feel like that’s like and he threw in a little comment at the end that I was like, ooh, what was it? That I was like, if this is how you’re approaching it, I can see maybe why she thinks you’re being an a-hole. So he said, Well, I thought I wasn’t putting it on you. Um, because it’s not your fault that we don’t have similar sex drives, it’s my fault for choosing you as a partner. Oh, right. It’s my fault for choosing you as a partner. Nope. Nope. That’s an that’s an a-hole thing. If that was the energy that you were giving, of like my level of responsibility is just owning that I chose wrong.

Michelle Massunken: 09:59
Like you’re the problem, but I chose the problem. And so that’s why we’re here. Right.

Tina Wilston: 10:04
Whereas if it was more like you’re not the problem, because there’s a million different reasons why we have different needs for intimacy and sex and that type of stuff. And a lot of healthy, normal, functioning women don’t want to do that. So it’s not your fault, but it’s also not my fault that as a normal, functioning, healthy man, I also want to. Like there’s nothing wrong with either one of us that you don’t want to and that I do.

Exactly. Because I actually think that a lot of relationships, and I’m not gonna go marriage because once you have kids and all that, it’s a different, different test. But I really think that sometimes people stay in dating relationships longer than they should because they can’t accept that, like, I’m fine as I am, they’re fine as they are. We’re not good together. So we should just go our separate ways. Instead, I get in this trying to get you just to meld to what I need, like because you’re so perfect in all these other areas.

If I could just get you to switch things, speak a little bit. Uh, but those are often what we see in therapy later on. Like, why are you getting divorced? This one thing that has never changed in 20 years. And it’s like never, never like it was there at the very beginning. Yes, it was there at the very beginning. I just can’t handle it anymore. It’s like, why did what what changed?

Michelle Massunken: 11:18
It’s always been consistent, right? So you’re the one who’s changing, if anything.

Tina Wilston: 11:22
Why why was there an expectation that was ultimately in a change? And how did we never get to a point of acceptance over 20 years or whatever? That that’s just how they are.

Michelle Massunken: 11:30
Yeah, this is how we accepted each other at the beginning, and now all of a sudden now it’s it’s shifted. Yeah, yeah.

Tina Wilston: 11:36
So a fee it’s hard to tell for sure. It is. I like a lot of what he was saying, like in that he is trying to be understanding and is just come to it. Sounds like he just come to an acceptance. We want different things. And he’s actually okay with that. And I don’t, we can’t speak to we really have no idea why she’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, with his decision. Yeah, like why is she responding so strongly um to it? I guess for her, it doesn’t seem like a deal breaker in some ways. Well, she sound she said blindsided. So I’m a little bit curious if she’s like, I feel like I’m putting in effort right now and we haven’t we haven’t run the full course of trying to figure this out. Why are you saying no?

Michelle Massunken: 12:19
When the effort hasn’t been completed, we haven’t finished exploring that.

Tina Wilston: 12:23
Yeah. And I think sex off the table, I don’t know that they have defined that with each other effectively enough to also make that proper. If it’s like you’re not allowed to express your disappointment and the lack of our sex life until I tell you that you can again, no. That’s not reasonable. I don’t think a couples therapist would be like, that’s a good idea. Yeah. I’m not a couples therapist, but I don’t, I really don’t think a couples therapist would put that. This would have to be mutually agreed upon, actually. Exactly.

Michelle Massunken: 12:50
And it’s right, or even if it’s coming from like the sex off the table piece, if that’s the recommendation of the therapist, just based on what she is seeing or clinically, our clinical impressions, or like you said, to maybe focus on other things.

Tina Wilston: 13:00
But yeah, like rebuilding trust. Exactly. Because I think it’s good sometimes, it’s good to take it off the table if there’s been infidelity. It’s like, well, we’re gonna take it between us off the table for now, and let’s see if we can rebuild trust. Yep, let’s see if we can rebuild things. Like there are reasons to take it, like I’ve just mutually agreed on.

Michelle Massunken: 13:15
Yes. Right.

Tina Wilston: 13:16
We almost have like these ground rules and and how does your need to talk about this continue? And that can be okay. Well, you’ll be in individual therapy and you can vent all you want about it not happening there. But because it’s become this like it’s killing my libido how much we talk about this, okay. But that’s not sex off the table. That’s you know what I mean? Like that’s actually uh we need to learn better ways of communicating about this, and I don’t know. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Massunken: 13:42
So I think that’s the part that makes it a bit tricky that it was like a one-sided decision versus one that was agreed upon together.

Tina Wilston: 13:49
Yeah.

Michelle Massunken: 13:49
But then is his solution the solution?

Tina Wilston: 13:52
Right.

Michelle Massunken: 13:52
Or are there ways again of exploring why is it off the table? Why did you come to that discussion?

Tina Wilston: 13:57
So I feel like there’s a bit more because I know there are people that have said to their partners before, like, listen, I have tried to bring this sex issue because sometimes there are some people that are like, shut the conversation down every time. Like they don’t want to talk about it. We’re not going there. And that’s how you get a four-year-long dead marriage, because you’re just like, this is it becomes the elephant in the room that we never talk about. And I’ve I know that sometimes people will say, like, if this doesn’t get dealt with, I will source it outside of the marriage.

And the person will still be like, I don’t want to talk about it. And then they unapologetically kind of go get it outside of the marriage. And I understand how people find themselves there because that’s the what we would see like stonewalling. You have the other person just stonewalling you on this topic. They are not working with you, they are not, you’re they’re not trying to help figure it out that it becomes this taboo topic that we I don’t even feel comfortable bringing up with you. And if I’m gonna stay in it for the kids or for finances or whatever, I’m I’m gonna have to figure it out on my own then. And usually the person is not gonna like this. Exactly. They’re not, yeah. But I see how people find themselves there. Yeah.

Michelle Massunken: 15:02
And that goes back to the avoidance piece, right? Like you can’t avoid those kind of conversations, but then have frustration creep in because of the impact of the consequences of your avoidances. And so it’s one of those things where again, if we don’t address it and discuss it, then we do feel blindsided. Yeah. Because we’re thinking that just because we’re avoiding it, that they’re avoiding it, and just because we’re okay with the avoidance is that they must be okay with that as well, too.

Tina Wilston: 15:23
But such a good point. That’s not always how we think that could explain the blind side. I’m okay with that. We agreed to not talk about it. No, we didn’t actually, yeah, you know, that was a one-sided decision. Yeah. Which you’re you are allowed to make, but it has a consequence. I really love how you said that. Like sometimes people want to be able to do what they do, but not face a consequence for it. And it’s like, no, you have the total ability to do what you want, say what you want, act how you want, do your thing, do, do your thing, but there will be consequences if you don’t get to play the victim to the consequence. Yeah, exactly. And like, what? Um I didn’t know that was gonna happen. Right?

Michelle Massunken: 15:59
You’re like, yeah, but I mean that is working to happen.

Tina Wilston: 16:02
Yeah, all right. Next one, I’ll pass it over to you.

Michelle Massunken: 16:08
Okay, so the next one am I the a-hole for uninviting my best friend from my birthday trip after finding out that they invited someone I specifically said I did not want there. So I planned a four-day birthday trip with five of my closest friends and paid for the Airbnb months in advance. I told everyone from the beginning that I wanted it to be a small group because I didn’t want the trip to become chaotic.

About two months, or sorry, about two weeks before the trip, I found out my best friend had invited another person without telling me. I’ve met this person several times, but we’ve never really gotten along. I asked my friend why they invited them, and they said it’s not a big deal. There’s enough space. I told them I wasn’t comfortable with it and reminded them that I was paying for most of the Airbnb and that this was supposed to be my birthday trip. They got angry and said that I was being controlling and that I was trying to decide who they could be friends with.

I eventually told them that if they brought the person anyway, I would rather they not come at all. They said I was ruining our friendship over something stupid. Now, two of our other friends think I went too far while the others agree with me. Am I the a-hole?

Tina Wilston: 17:33
I like this post because I feel like a lot of people find themselves in similar circumstances where there’s a couple things that happen. First of all, they’re trying to set a healthy boundary for themselves, and the person calls them controlling for doing it. See that a lot, eh? We do see that a lot. It’s like you do something you shouldn’t do, I react to it, and now we’re actually gonna focus on my reaction instead of what you did.

Right. So that that was problematic. They minimized their concerns twice by a saying you’re gonna ruin our friendship over something stupid, but also it’s no big deal, there’s lots of room. So they they minimized their concerns. And there was a third piece that I heard um where uh so they minimized it. Oh, yeah, they they made it about this. Was the big one, they made it about something it wasn’t, um, which was you’re trying to tell me who to be friends with. Yeah, no. So they actually like flat-out swapped out what the issue was even about, um, which is they use a lot of really destabilizing strategies for their argument.

And I think that I think that’s why I like this post is because I think a lot of people find themselves arguing with someone who’s doing these things to them. Like I’m telling you, I don’t want this person, I’m not saying you can’t be friends with them, be friends with them all day long. I don’t want them at my birthday Airbnb trip. Right. Those are not the same things at all. Number one. Number two, I I did find it interesting of like, did they pay for it all or did they not pay for it all?

Michelle Massunken: 19:09
Because they just said I paid for most of it.

Tina Wilston: 19:11
I’m like, and then which one is it? To me, it does make a slight difference. If you’re paying for all of it, you should your trip, it’s your event. Yeah. So I don’t think people can should ever feel entitled to invite someone along with best friend or no best friend, you do not invite somebody if they’re paying for it.

Michelle Massunken: 19:28
Yeah.

Tina Wilston: 19:28
If the best friend is paying for their portion and let’s say their room, and they want to invite another person, there’s a s to me, there’s a bit of a difference. Considering it’s still for their birthday, it’s a very thoughtless thing to do to not like check in and be like, I was thinking about inviting this person.

Michelle Massunken: 19:44
Yeah. Um yeah, I feel like the the like the situation, not the situation, but more so like the accommodation makes a huge difference. Like if it’s an Airbnb, we’re all under the same roof, in the same house. It’s different if we’re in a hotel. Yeah, and we had different rooms, like you said, then there’s a lot more distance that the two friends can have from each other.

But this is her event. We’re here to celebrate her. And I think she has a say in how and who she celebrates with. Yeah. I don’t know that we that the other friend has the right to sort of contribute to that in in any way, whether it’s someone that she actually would have wanted or even not. I she made it, she made like a conscious effort of deciding who she wanted to have there.

Tina Wilston: 20:28
Yeah.

Michelle Massunken: 20:29
Like she knew what she was doing when she created her guest list. And she voiced it, right?

Tina Wilston: 20:33
She said, I’m purposely keeping this small.

Michelle Massunken: 20:35
Exactly. Exactly. Like she was clear with what she wanted out of this and her expectations, and for someone else to come and say, Well, no, I think I’m gonna invite this person who you don’t even talk to. Yeah. Um, happy birthday. Like that’s I think that’s inconsiderate.

Tina Wilston: 20:50
Yeah. I am very curious. We’re gonna go uh, I think a little bit deeper into this into one of the other scenarios that we have, because I think it’s even more relevant. But I I am kind of curious about the two friends that agree with me and the two friends that don’t.

Because you know, we know that in group dynamics, sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and the more kind of unreasonable person sometimes people are like, just cater to them because like let’s all get along. So can everybody just cater to the difficult person? And just based on the strategies that they use to argue, I am taking a leap and saying maybe they are a more difficult person, and everybody is just saying, let’s cater to the difficult one.

Michelle Massunken: 21:34
The one who brought the friend.

Tina Wilston: 21:35
Yeah, yeah. And I don’t know. I think that that’s always a good idea if you if you’re getting feedback from people saying, I think you’re in the wrong. I think it’s a good idea to step back from the situation and go, What’s their why would they want me to be the one who bends in this situation? ‘Cause this is like two people that have differing opinions. What is it that’s feeding them saying that I’m being the difficult one? Yeah. And even what why why do I have the ones that are telling me I’m actually right? Right.

Michelle Massunken: 22:04
But that’s where that’s like the honest friendships can come in handy. Yeah. Right. It’s like, what are the blind spots that I’m not actually seeing? Like, don’t just tell me what I want to hear. Don’t be like ChatGPT, what I want to hear. Like, what are my blind spots? What am I actually not seeing that will help me to see this in a different way? And I think, again, without that, you will have like this 50-50 piece of like, yeah, no, I agree with you. I don’t like you guys both have to have something that you’re seeing that’s different. I don’t know.

Tina Wilston: 22:30
It’s just I wish if they’d update uh Reddit, if you’d update this, I’d like to know what the friends who are supporting you are saying versus the ones they are supporting your friend. What what why are they telling you that because I’m just struggling to see the obvious reason why the friend who’s trying to invite someone is any way, shape, or form in the right.

Michelle Massunken: 22:51
Like unless she’s trying to rebuild that, I don’t know. Not the time and place though. No.

Tina Wilston: 22:57
Yeah. And they’re supposed to be your best friend, so their feelings at their birthday should take priority over your feelings because it’s their birthday. And uh this would be a different conversation if it wasn’t the event for wasn’t for them. You know, like there’s a lot of details of this. If they were different, the whole conversation would be different.

Michelle Massunken: 23:16
But based on where this is and what the occasion is, yeah, I’m really sure.

Tina Wilston: 23:20
Yeah. I’d like to know any anybody listening who wants to comment and be like, this is why I think that um the friend trying to invite the random person is in the right. I want to hear it because I legitimately it’s not coming to mind right away. Yeah. I don’t see it.

Michelle Massunken: 23:36
Let us know. We want we want answers. All righty.

Tina Wilston: 23:41
Ready for the next one? Thank you for getting it up for me. Nice. Okay.

Tina Wilston: 23:46
Am I the a-hole for telling my coworker to come pick up her child early? So I have a coworker, CW, who I’m pretty friendly with at work. We always talk about trying to find time to hang out more, but it’s hard as I work two jobs and also have two kids with autism, so my schedule is pretty packed. CW asked if I could watch her seven-year-old every now and then so her hubby could get her and her hubby could get a break. Last night was a trial run to see how she fares in our house, like if she gets along with my two toddlers or if she gets overstimulated, etc.

Her daughter’s also special needs, so she asked me specifically if I could do this and agreed to the trial. This trial run was described to me as we’ll drop her off for a little and we’ll grab some dessert nearby, like ice cream, and come back. Not too long. Quotations. In my head, I’m thinking, okay, that doesn’t sound too bad. I can totally hang out with her for a dessert date. They got to my house around 7 p.m. We chit chat for a little bit about our work day earlier. Then I hear, are you hungry, sweetie? Oh, yes, I’m quite hungry.

This is where I start messing up. I didn’t call it out. You didn’t feed your child dinner before coming here. Honestly, I’m tired at this point. I didn’t feel like handling confrontation, so I just asked if she would like chicken nuggets. She was also interested in what my daughter was eating, so I made her some of that too. Um, and after her parents left. Little one was a joy. She’s so smart, she’s normally homeschooled, so she didn’t have a lot of interaction with other kids or people in general. So she had a lot to say. I sent her mom fun little updates and a cute video while we waited for her parents to return.

About an hour later, I get a message saying, We’re gonna have dinner. We’re at this address. I flash back to earlier when she asked her daughter if she was hungry. Again, I didn’t call it out. I just go to that sounds yummy. I was trying to justify it thinking that she had a busy day at work while mine was more mild, but I did feel a little used. Now we’re coming up on 9 p.m. and I’m starting to fall asleep. My workday starts at 4:30, and I was wondering when she was coming back. So I finally texted her that I’m sorry, but falling asleep and need to get to bed soon. I get a we’re on the way text. Uh, another 30 minutes later, they come back and the energy was different. I let her in, I give her a hug hello, asking how her date was. She gives me a flat, it was fine, and go straight to her daughter to get her shoes on.

I felt bad because the little one didn’t want to leave, so I just stood back and let CW do her mama thing till little one was willing to go. CW said everything was fine after. I asked if she was alright, but I’m having mixed emotions on it all. I started feeling like an a-hole for cutting their date short, even though it was meant to be short. They really seemed like they needed the break. My husband said I shouldn’t feel like an a-hole because I already went above and beyond accepting to do this for nothing in return and feeding their child. What do y’all think?

Michelle Massunken: 26:42
I find it so interesting how every time a boundary is set, it’s almost like internalized, as it’s like I did something wrong. Right. Right? Like I think for her, she’s not even looking at the facts of the situation. No. You open up your your home on a work night, you have your own children with their own needs that you’re taking care of. Yeah. You fed this child. She’s doing a lot. Yeah. You fed this child dinner. Like there are so many things that she’s overlooking. Yeah. And it’s like the one phone call seems to trump every other thing that she’s done that’s been in support of her friend and her friend’s husband. Yeah. And I think that’s a very common theme that I see a lot in individual therapy as well, too, right? It’s like the more I assert my needs, the more I assert my wishes, the more I’m questioning whether that makes me selfish or that makes me inconsiderate.

Tina Wilston: 27:33
Right.

Michelle Massunken: 27:33
Whereas when I’m passive and I’m just doing what the person wants me to do, I’m still not I’m still not setting my own needs at the forefront of anything, right? I’m still kind of overlooking what my needs are for the sake of my colleague or my friend. Um, but that seems to kind of be overlooked. Yeah. So I think that I definitely don’t think that she’s an a-hole by any means. I think she’s done a lot for her friend.

Tina Wilston: 27:55
Yeah. I think something that popped out for me, and I can’t tell me if you can remember the other word for it, because the word that’s coming to mind for me is overperformer, but I feel like there’s another word for it when you’re just used to being very high um ability, high tolerance to stress and that type of stuff. So she has two jobs and she’s managing. She has two children with autism that she said needs like managing. Um, she has to get up at 4:30 in the morning, all these kinds of things. Like she is someone that’s a high achiever or high performer. But I think she’s getting into overperformance.

And what I find with overperformance is the second I don’t meet someone else’s idea of like what that looks like, I feel like there’s something wrong with me. And I don’t see, I don’t give myself credit for all the things that I already did. And not to mention, can we just talk for a second about like the absolute overstepping of this friend? I can’t fathom. Right. I’m just picturing this. It’s 7 p.m. A friend says, Can I come over the this whole scenario? Can I for dessert date? And their first question to their kid is they enter my home. Now you’re wondering if they’re hungry. Right. Where was that question when you were before you left the house? It’s interesting.

Like to me, I would have felt really, really taken advantage of that there was no discussion beforehand of by the way, I won’t have chance for food. Is it possible? Is it okay? Can you make a little extra for dinner? Da-da-da. This is what they eat, this is what they don’t eat, that kind of thing. But that’s an like interestingly, most people have enough sense to go, that could be asking too much. So instead, I’m gonna force them into it by bringing the kid into it. Cause I’m making an impossible no now.

Right. And you’re just gonna look like an a-hole if you say no. And we’re gonna somehow, and interestingly, this friend is sidestepping the fact that if if the friend who said this, am I the a-hole for bringing my kid over? When I said it was just this, and then the first question I asked when I drop my kid off is, Are you hungry? And then expect my friend to make dinner. Yes, you are the a-hole. You should not do that. And so that was a massive overstep. And obviously, like she had quotation marks of dessert and we’ll be right back. And then an hour later, you don’t ask, can we go for dinner? You say we’re going for dinner.

That’s not okay. You ask, you don’t say, because again, she’s putting her in the I have to be an a-hole to bring this up. Because if someone says it’s totally fine if you say no, I know it’s not wasn’t the deal. We were hoping to grab dinner, but I don’t know what the rest of your day looks like. Please say no if it’s not good. Then she doesn’t have to be the a-hole and she’s like, I really, if I’d known in advance, I’m really sorry I have to be up at 4:30. I’d love to maybe next time. Like she’d get to be able to have that conversation, but instead she just says it, which requires the friend to go, hold on a second, that’s not what you said. I need you back now. Like it requires her not okay.

Michelle Massunken: 31:13
No, you’re putting her in a very tough situation.

Tina Wilston: 31:15
Yes.

Michelle Massunken: 31:16
Where you and maybe she knows her friend is one of those that she can kind of take advantage of or wouldn’t speak up if she is a high performer in that sense, there.

Tina Wilston: 31:25
And so, in a lot of ways, there’s I think there could have been a little of that in there of just like expectation. Exactly. Like, I know how she replied. She’s fine, she’ll do it. She she can handle a lot. Like, she’d let me know if there was any problem. And I imagine she might have been taking, like, oh, she’s sending me pictures, everything’s going really well. So she might have like read that as some level of permission, but at the end of the day, you’re 100% the a-hole for not asking. That should have been a question, not a statement.

Tina Wilston: 31:52
That’s it for today’s episode of the The MindSpa Podcast. If this conversation resonated, I’d love it if you would follow and share. It’s a small thing that makes a big difference. The links to our podcast platform on Instagram and YouTube are in the show notes, and your support helps us reach more people and attract the voices you want to hear.